PODCASTThe Science of Happiness

DACHER KELTNER: So Elizabeth, I know that the physicians have been reacting to the NRA telling doctors not to get involved with gun control issues.

ELIZABETH GUINTO: I think they use a term like self important physicians need to stay in their lane. And then the hashtag came out that this is our lane. My gut reaction when I heard them say that was frustration, just stunned that they could be so dismissive. I know plenty of gun owners, especially because I'm in the military, and we live in the south, and I'm not pro gun. I'm not anti gun. I'm just anti gun violence. I mean, for me, as a psychiatrist, it's something that I have a conversation about, probably on a daily basis when I'm working with my patients about guns, and do they own one? Where is it? What's the purpose for why they have it? Homicides and mass shootings are what's in the news. But suicide is so much more common than a mass shooting, over 50% occur using a firearm, and suicide can be a very impulsive decision, and so we need to look at, say, storage and access to guns and background checks, all of those things are being proposed, and this is a huge public health issue, maybe even a public health crisis,

DACHER KELTNER: Right, I agree. So Elizabeth, not only are you a psychiatrist and taking care of a lot of people, but you've got a busy family. Life, and you've got a daughter? 

ELIZABETH GUINTO: Yes, I have a two year old daughter. 

DACHER KELTNER: And so you're doing what a lot of young moms are doing these days, which is balancing family and life and work. How's that going? 

ELIZABETH GUINTO: It's going. it's, every day is a little bit different. And right now, we're dealing with a lot of power struggles. 

DACHER KELTNER: With your two year old? 

ELIZABETH GUINTO: Yes, and you just learn to let things go, like she puts the shoes on the wrong feet and she refuses to change it. 

DACHER KELTNER: Now, that's not going to work in the military, I might add.

ELIZABETH GUINTO: That's true. She may not have a future there. Yeah, she's not taking orders very well right now, for sure. 

DACHER KELTNER: And what's that like for you? I mean, you see, you've spent a decade or so in this structure that's founded on duty and taking orders and power structures and like, and now you have to take care of this two year old. What's that like for you? 

ELIZABETH GUINTO: It is exhausting. It's rewarding and exhausting, and it makes me respect all parents out there, including my own, on such a different level. It's 24/7 and it's unpredictable. The two year old doesn't know what rules are. Doesn't care. You have to be playing mental jujitsu with her. Like around the clock. 

DACHER KELTNER: Your calendar is very full of stressful interactions, it's more power to you. So it's so fascinating. You know, in the show, people choose different kinds of practices, and they often kind of fold into the narrative of their lives, and you chose the self compassion break. And one of the things that I've been struck by is in teaching happiness over the years. We do have this epidemic, if you will, of in particular, women balancing work and life and family and raising kids and paying bills. And there is a certain some have called it almost a perfectionistic trap that people fall into. And we're doing so much, and there's a lot of pressure, is that part of the context that led you to choose the self compassion break?

ELIZABETH GUINTO: I think it is something that everyone could benefit from. I don't know anyone who wouldn't benefit from being able to implement more self compassion into their life. Yeah, and it really is a skill. I was very wary at first. It makes me nervous. It feels uncomfortable, but I can see how it can be potentially life changing too.

DACHER KELTNER: Yeah, and I bring up women, because a lot of the young women that they teach today, I think there's additional stress placed on them, and the data bear this out, just for not only being kind, but also being powerful and being exceptional at work and being great mom, and, you know, it's a lot of lot of pressure.

ELIZABETH GUINTO: In the back of my mind, especially because I'm pregnant right now, and I thank you. In a few months, I have this pervasive thought in the back of my head, like this is just going to get worse. In a few months, everything's going to be worse, and that thought seems to bookend like a lot of other times. When I'm having anxiety or worrying about something, I feel like I always have to be on top of everything. And if I did drop the ball on one or two things, then things would just unravel quickly. And there's always, like a constant kind of voice in my head saying, like other people, can do it. This isn't that hard. That's the inner critic in me, always this nagging voice in my head that reminds me that my friends seem to be really happy and enjoying their professional and personal lives, and they're doing it. So why is this so difficult for you?

DACHER KELTNER: So let's listen to how the self compassion break went for you.

ELIZABETH GUINTO: Step number one, think of a situation in your life that is difficult and causing you stress. Okay? Number two, call the situation to mind and see if you can actually feel the stress and emotional discomfort in your body? Yeah, I can definitely feel it in my neck and shoulders. I know that's where I carry a lot of my anxiety. Okay, step number three, say to yourself, This is a moment of suffering. This acknowledgement is a form of mindfulness, of simply noticing what's going on for you emotionally in the present moment. Without judging that experience as good or bad, you can say to yourself, This hurts or this is stress, use whatever statement feels most natural to you. So this sucks. How many more days left of this do I have? So just saying, this is stress or this sucks, but that's okay. Those are statements that feel natural to me. Step four, say to yourself, suffering is a part of life. This is recognition of your common humanity with others, that all people have trying experiences, and these experiences give you something in common with the rest of humanity. Other options include other people feel this way. I'm not alone, or we all struggle in our lives. I think the I'm not alone statement really resonates with me. I think that a lot of other active duty military psychiatrists probably have somewhat of a similar sentiment. Just that knowledge that you're not alone really, really helps. Number five, put your hands over your heart, feel the warmth of your hands and the gentle touch of your chest, and say, may I be kind to myself. This is a way to express self kindness. You can also consider whether there is another specific phrase that would speak to you in that particular situation. Examples include, may I give myself the compassion they need, may I learn to accept myself as I am, may I forgive myself, may I be strong and may I be patient. May I learn to accept myself as I am? Think that really hits the nail on the head. May I learn to accept myself as I am?

DACHER KELTNER: Really powerful. Did you feel that helped you in some way?

ELIZABETH GUINTO: I think it was really powerful, and it really resonated with me. And just the physical touch too, I think is very grounding. Yeah. Think the power of touch is really underestimated. Yeah, sometimes with anxiety, just get so trapped in your thoughts that you don't realize the physiological impact it has. Yeah, things just like giving yourself, you know, a hand massage, or stretching your neck and shoulders. I mean, those things also are things that I personally can benefit from when I feel anxious. 

DACHER KELTNER: Yeah, you know, I mean, I cannot agree more. I've been really struck in the mindfulness literature and that, you know, the body awareness practices of sort of relaxing your face, or body scans, or the self compassion when touching your heart, just kind of dropping your attention into the body and detecting the sources of anxiety is really, really powerful. My colleague Serena Chen here at Berkeley and Zhao Wei Zhang have this really cool finding that when you think about something you really regret in life, and you adopt a self compassionate stance, you're not as upset by it, and you feel like, well, I could improve myself. What do you notice in the aftermath of the times you did the practice? What did you experience? 

ELIZABETH GUINTO: I felt like I could be more tolerant of things that might irritate me or things that might fluster me. My daughter knows that bath time is the last barrier to going to sleep, which is something she doesn't want to do. And so every component of bath time is difficult, whether it's getting up the stairs to go to the bath, physically getting into the bath, staying in the bath, that would normally be upsetting to me, but I think when you're reframing it under this idea of self compassion, you can already feel an impact. Yeah, thinking that you know I'm not alone. So many people go through this being able to just do something so simple as put your hand over your heart and say that I'm not alone. 

DACHER KELTNER: Yeah, let's hear how bath time went after you did the self compassion break. 

ELIZABETH GUINTO: All done. All done. Speedy mommy, big, big. Mommy's big. Mommy has a big belly, because what's in mommy's belly, baby? Uh huh. Okay. Are we all done? 321, 321, all done. Yeah, Mommy, guess what, you're all clean so we're all done, sweetie, we cleaned your feet, we cleaned your butt, we cleaned your hair, so we're all done. No mama's so more soap. I'm trying to make that time more fun. So I think for both of us, it's much more enjoyable. 

DACHER KELTNER: I'm really curious, are you going to try this with your patients in the military? 

ELIZABETH GUINTO: I would love to, I think there's a lot of interest amongst patients who are not interested in medications. Yeah, and unfortunately, oftentimes it can be black or white, like, do you want meds or do you not? And if you don't, then I'm not going to see you. And that's unfortunately kind of the way our system is designed. But there's so much more that we can do to help. We just need to have a more diverse skill set. Patients who I'm seeing, yeah, who have PTSD are seeking out alternative treatments. And I know you guys had a podcast recently about float therapy as well. That was very intriguing. I never even heard of that. Yeah, you don't have to rely on anybody. You don't need a prescription. I mean, something that they can do themselves and can be very self empowering. And so I think the more things that are outside the box, they need to be embraced and they will be explored.

DACHER KELTNER: Yeah, so well put. Well, Elizabeth, I want to thank you for your service, and thank you for the incredible work that you do, and thank you for this really revealing experimentation with the self compassion break.

ELIZABETH GUINTO: Thank you so much for having me.

DACHER KELTNER: We'll talk more about the science of the self compassion after a short break.

When we find ourselves in a difficult situation and then we beat ourselves up about it, things tend to get even harder and feel more unmanageable. Treating yourself with understanding and compassion is a healthier response that can help you work through the stress and reach a calmer, contented, happier state. Kristin Neff, at the University of Texas has been studying self compassion for over a decade and has developed a program to teach self compassion skills.

KRISTIN NEFF: What's been surprising is you can teach people how to be self compassionate and see how it changes their behavior. So in the study we did, we basically had people take the mindful self compassion course. It's a series of exercises and meditations and informal practices, loving kindness meditation, or some sort of breath meditation to bring compassion to yourself. Informal practices are ones you kind of do in daily life, maybe putting your hand on your heart when you're stressed. And exercises, for instance, learning how to motivate yourself with compassion as opposed to criticism, and the research shows we feel the effect of our own harshness just the same way we would if someone we cared about was harsh to us, and then we followed them up at six months and then a year. And so basically, we measured how much self compassion did they gain, how much mindfulness and their mental health, and what we found is it reduces negative outcomes like stress or depression, but it actually increases positive mind states like happiness, like life satisfaction. And these gains were maintained for at least a year. The need for self compassion is certainly as high as it's ever been because of the fact that people spend so much time on social media, and the problem with things like Instagram is people project these perfect images of themselves, and that's precisely when people start feeling bad about themselves and need to remember, hey, you know, you're a human being. It's okay to be imperfect. Everyone's imperfect, and just give yourself a break. Be a little kind to yourself, instead of so demanding and perfectionistic. This isn't rocket science. This is the skill you can learn, you can apply, and it can really change your life.

DACHER KELTNER: If you would like to try the self compassion break, you'll find simple instructions at our website. Greater Good in Action. That's GGIA.berkeley.edu, and then call us at 510-519-4903, to let us know how it went.

DARREN HOLLINGSWORTH: My name is Darren Hollingsworth. I have just recently started listening to the Science of Happiness. It has been transformative in my life and in my journey, and incredibly grateful. The real purpose of the call was just to say thank you for this podcast, and I just listened to the compliment one. So I will compliment all of you who are on the production team. You do great work and make a meaningful impact. Thank you.

If you're a fan of the science of happiness, please consider making a donation to support our work here at the Greater Good Science Center. In fact, if you donate now, through the end of the year, your generosity will be doubled. A major donor will give us a matching gift to help us create a new series of videos to go along with this podcast, please go to greater good.berkeley.edu/crowdfund. I'm Dacher Keltner, thanks for joining me for The Science of Happiness. Our podcast is a co-production of UC Berkeley's Greater Good Science Center and PRI with production assistance from Jennie Cataldo and Ben Manila of BMP audio. Our producer Shuka Kalantari. Our associate producer is Lee Mengistu. Our executive producer is Jane Park. The Editor in Chief of the Greater Good Science Center is Jason Marsh. Special thanks to UC Berkeley's Graduate School of Journalism, you can learn more about the science of happiness and find related articles, videos, quizzes, all kinds of stuff on our website. Greater good.berkeley.edu and shoot us an email. Tell us what you think about what you heard. Send it to greater@berkeley.edu