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Nigel says no matter where you are, everyone has a story to tell about a hug: good, bad, or awkward. Earlonne isn’t buying it.
Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX.
Transcription:
Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: Hi, I'm Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman. I'm a reporter at KQED. This
episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that may not be appropriate for all
listeners. Discretion is advised.
Tam: Testing you.
Jason: Good.
Nigel: So, you guys keep that one, and then Frenemy and I will share this one.
Earlonne: Huh. Frenemy, huh?
Nigel: [laughs]
Earlonne: This cat again.
Nigel: Yeah. Listeners might remember him from that episode we did about elections, where
he said he would never vote for a woman no matter what, because he didn't think women
should be in power or that they should be bosses. And so, I can never let that go, and that's
why I call him Frenemy.
Earlonne: Okay. Your Frenemy name is Jason.
Nigel: Yes. And he's one of our new interns at San Quentin now. So, I see him quite a bit.
Earlonne: Frenemy, internemy?
Nigel: Internemy. [laughs] That's good. Anyway, we're in class the other day, and there was
this idea I really wanted to get across about the importance of noticing small details.
So, I wanted to start today by playing a clip for you. One of the things that we're always
thinking about when we do stories are what are the small, interesting details that a story can
revolve around. When you're interviewing someone, I want you to listen for the small things.
But it's not just with people's language. It's also with their body language and sounds that
they make. So, as you're listening, I want you to think about what you hear that keys you into
something important that's going to happen. All right, let's listen.
The thing I wanted to talk to you about was your first visit with your mom. Yeah. How did you
prep?
Adnan: So, I took a lot of deep breaths. I tried to choreograph my hug, because I haven't
hugged my mom in a long time in the cell.
Nigel: Wait, wait, how did you practice? How did you choreograph a hug?
Adnan: So, I didn't know, because I haven't hugged someone in a long time. Maybe by then
it was 13 years. So, I didn't know if my hand goes around her shoulder or her neck. I didn't
know if it went diagonally, like two 45-degree angles. Like, “Okay, what do you do up? Is it
down? Is it sideways?”
Nigel: Did you actually practice hugging somebody else?Adnan: No. [crosstalk] My cellie wasn't up for that. No, I did not. I just air hugged myself.
Nigel: When you're listening to that, what first cues you in to that this is going to maybe lead
to an interesting conversation.
Jason: So, for me, when he did a deep sigh, he was like [sighs]. And so, to me, that told me
it was going to be emotional.
Nigel: Totally. When you're doing an interview and you hear me ask him, I want to talk to
you about your mom and you hear him go, [gasps] That is the first sign, like, “Okay, there is
something interesting going on here.” I didn't know where it was going to go, but that told me
immediately, this is something to probe.
Earlonne: This conversation about looking for small details actually opened up a bigger
conversation, didn't it, about hugs.
Nigel: Yeah. It turned out to be a really compelling topic. I mean, everyone in that room,
Tony, Tam, and our interns, Jason and Sammie, they all had stories about hugs.
I'm curious, as you were listening to it, what you all were thinking when he started talking
about hugs, what came to mind?
Sammie: For me, hugging my mom came to mind.
Earlonne: This is Sammie, our other intern.
Sammie: Like, I remember the last time I really hugged my mom was, I was about 13 years
old. Her arms was around the top of me, because I was littler than her. So, I would hug her
lower body, like her stomach area, and just hold on. And now that I'm taller than her, now
here she was hugging me, and now she was at my chest areas we were hugging. You know,
it was different.
Nigel: Yeah.
Sammie: But the love was still there.
Tam: I don't like physical affection.
Earlonne: Here's Tam.
Tam: I came from those really stereotypical Asian families where they didn't just show a lot,
like, I could become the president of the United States. My father would do this. He would
touch me on the shoulder and go, “Good job.”
Nigel: I was really glad that Tam was here this day, because he and I share a story around
hugs. It was about a year ago, and we're down in the media lab, and Tam had gotten some
really bad news.
Earlonne: He had a petition submitted to the courts to change his sentence. And things
didn't go his way.
Nigel: I was with him that day, and it was really emotional for everybody. And so, there's this
very strict rule on physical affection in prison, like, I can't hug anyone, no matter what they'regoing through. I felt really terrible for Tam, and I wanted to express it. So, I shared with him
some acceptable hand hug that I had come up with.
Tam: It was, “Hey, I can't hug you. Let's do the hand hug.”
Nigel: Yeah.
Tam: Basically, we put our hands together, like palms facing each other, and then our
thumbs wrap around the pinky side of the other hand. You know what? It almost made me
cry. I still do it to you now, and it always makes me laugh. I tried to do it to somebody else,
and they just looked at me like I was crazy. And I go, “I'm sorry, man. [Nigel laughs] My
thumb touched you too much.” [laughs]
Earlonne: Nigel.
Nigel: Mm-hmm.
Earlonne: It seems like y'all getting soft with these topics. [Nigel laughs] What's going on?
Nigel: Okay. I hear what you're saying, because yes, a hug has the potential to create a
very corny story. I agree. But there's also something really potent in it. I don't know, we
always talk about doing stories about small, overlooked things, and a hug is a perfect
example of that. On the surface, it may seem like this very corny Hallmarky thing. But when
you start digging in, there's all kinds of interesting subtleties and stories behind various hugs.
Earlonne: I don't know.
Nigel: [laughs] What do you mean?
Earlonne: I think this might be one of those bullshitty topics. You know what I'm saying,
Nyge? [Nigel laughs] You're stretching it.
Nigel: Maybe.
Earlonne: You're stretching the hug.
Nigel: [laughs] We're going to see. But I'm going to check back with you at the end of the
episode, okay,
-
Earlonne: [crosstalk]
Nigel: -how you feel about hugs.
Earlonne: All right. Cool.
Nigel: And then, we're going to hug it out.
Nigel and Earlonne: [laughs]
Earlonne: I'm Earlonne Woods.
Nigel: I'm Nigel Poor.
Earlonne: And this is Ear Hustle from PRX's Radiotopia.Nigel: The hug edition. [Earlonne laughs]
Tam: If you had to pick a superpower, right, what would it be and why?
Jason: Oh, man, you caught me off guard with that one. Superpower? What would it be and
why?
Earlonne: There's your frenemy again.
Nigel: Yes. So, a little while after that internship class, Jason sat down with Tam to tell him a
story about a memorable hug.
Jason: I think if I had a superpower, I would read people's hearts, because I'll be able to
know, like, if people intentions are pure towards me or not.
Tam: Corny.
Tam and Jason: [laughs]
Tam: No. No, I get it, man. I get you.
Jason: I know, like, “Okay, don't mess with this person. Don't miss--
” I think you alleviate a
lot of pitfalls in life if you knew people intentions.
Tam: I get you, man. I just clowning, bro. That's funny. You know what-- So, that brings me
to the story you were telling me about one of your friends here, right?
Jason: Yeah.
Tam: Tell me about this friend that you grew up with and the first time you saw him here at
the prison.
Jason: Yeah. So, I have a friend here whose name is Marquee. We grew up in juvenile hall
together. We grew up same neighborhood, we grew up friends, and we haven't seen each
other since we were kids. And so, in June of 2024, I come to San Quentin. I know he's here.
I know he is at the prison.
Earlonne: So, Jason's walking around and he's asking cats, “Hey man, you seen my
homie?”
Jason: You know this guy named Ray B, that was his street moniker. They was like, “Nah, I
don't know who that is.”
One day, I was walking out the building. As I'm walking past the Mac Shack to go down to
the yard, we have these three little flights of steps that we have to walk down. And as I'm
walking down the steps, I see this dude walking with a bag over his shoulder, like he was
coming from canteen.
And I know it's him, because he black is all outdoors. And I see his braids and I know it's
him. I know him by his walk. And man, I was so excited. And I had like this out of body
experience. I just ran to the bottom of the steps. And he saw me and we locked eyes and he
just dropped his package and he ran towards me, man. And we just wrapped our arms
around each other, bro.It's a full yard outside. It's like, 300 to 500 people just on the yard playing pickleball, playing
basketball, like, going about their business. But in that moment, it was just me and him. It
was just like a scene from a movie, like when they were just like in the cornfield. It was just
two people. Wasn't nobody around. It was just them. We didn't spin around in circles or
anything [chuckles] like that in the movies, but we just like, “Man, what's up? You here,
man?” He was just so excited and so happy to see me, and I was just so happy to see him,
too, somebody that I knew.
What's up, man? We with Ear Hustle. We out here doing stories.
Earlonne: So, like we said, we've got this internship going on in San Quentin. One of the
things that interns are learning to do is get yard talk. When we go out on the yard with our
microphones and we ask a bunch of people the same questions.
Nigel: Right. So, here are Sammie and Jason doing their first yard talk.
Sammie: If you could hug anyone, who would it be?
Jason: Kobe.
Sammie: Kobe?
Jason: Yeah.
Sammie: Explain to us why Kobe.
Jason: Kobe is my number one favorite athlete of all time. He's the reason why I really
started having a true love and affection for basketball, like, “Okay, yeah, that's what I want to
do. That's what I want to be like.”
State your name and who you are, how long you've been down. And if you could hug
anybody, who would it be?
Deonza: My name Deonza Clark. I've been down seven years. I hug my daughter. Yeah,
she need me.
Jason: When the last time you seen her?
Deonza: Last week.
Harmon: My name is Harmon.
Jason: How long you been in prison?
Harmon: 32 years. The last time I saw my daughter, she was eight years old. She's 40 now.
I distinctly remember her home from school from the school bus, and I was backing out the
driveway and I saw her leaning on the door to get in. So, I stopped. I said, “Where are your
keys?” And she grabbed me by the knees and said, “Daddy, don't go, don’t go.
” I said, “I'll be
right back.” And I've never been home since. And that was 1994.
Nigel: We're working on three different stories, so I'm going to tell you the three topics and
let me know if any of these resonate with you.
Kristen: Okay.Earlonne: A couple months back, we're doing interviews at the Central California Women's
Facility. We asked women to choose one of three topics for potential future episodes to talk
about pets, body image, and hugs. I remember this woman, Kristen, before you even got to
the end of the list, she got real emotional hugs.
Nigel: Hugs, man. Hugs will get you.
Stories about an important hug, an emotional one, a difficult one. And are you reacting to all
of these?
Kristen: I think hugs. When you said that-- My mom just died in November. And so, the hug
that I never got to give her.
Nigel: Yeah.
Earlonne: Kristen and her mom didn't get along so well growing up. After Kristen went to
prison, her parents rarely visited her.
Nigel: But about eight years ago, her parents did come for a visit. And for the first time in
years, Kristen felt like things with her mom had shifted, like, maybe there was a way to repair
this relationship.
Kristen: That weekend that she came was a weekend that I had just let go of any
expectation. I had done a lot of self-work and let go of resentments. I just wanted to show
that I wanted to reconcile. I didn't want to continue the same hurts that we had between us.
We were able to all take responsibility for bad choices that we'd been harboring for a long
time and offer forgiveness to each other. And I thought, like, “This is amazing.” Like, “I'm
going to have this relationship with my parents now, with my family that I've never had
before.”
Earlonne: Before they said goodbye, Kristen and her mom hugged each other.
Do you remember that hug?
Kristen: It was the first time, probably since I was a little kid, that it really felt like an
embrace and not an obligation to put our arms around each other and pretend like we're
hugging. It really felt like here we are embracing each other, because we love each other.
The day after they left, she had a grand mal seizure. They discovered that she had multiple
small brain aneurysms, and that was the beginning of early onset dementia.
It was a blessing in disguise. She would wake up one day and think that I was 16 years old
again. I would call and my mom would start talking to me like, “Hey, maybe we can meet up
and go out to dinner.” I know that in her mind, she was trying to fix these things before it
became what it is today.
Nigel: Man, Earlonne. I was so moved by this. Kristen's mom's dementia gave them the
opportunity to rewind things, to almost go back before the relationship had gone bad and
start all over again.
Earlonne: A straight up do over.Nigel: Exactly. And Kristen allowed that to happen. Instead of getting frustrated with her
mom, because her mom was forgetting things or being angry about old resentments, she
just let it all go.
Kristen: So, I would just agree with her, and say, “Yeah, Mom, we can talk about that.”
Through dementia, I was able to have the mom that I always needed, because she forgot
why she didn't like me, and she forgot the person that she used to be that was so angry, and
volatile all the time, how am I going to stay mad at her for things that she doesn't even
remember doing.
Nigel: What comes to mind when I say the word hug?
Robert: Connection forbidden.
Earlonne: Back in February, you and I were in Portland performing a live show and doing a
workshop at a men's prison. And I remember we met this dude named Robert.
Nigel: Yes. Do you remember he was this big, massive guy right out of central casting. He
could play a prison dude, right?
Earlonne: Right.
Nigel: But once he started talking, he was really emotional and like porous to everything.
Earlonne: Especially on the topic of hugs.
Robert: A lot of things come to mind, but important is the most, like that physical connection,
that physical touch is something that we are so deprived of in here that I see that deprivation
manifest itself in a lot of different ways in here. You see a lot of little banter and stuff
between men that could be misconstrued as acts of homosexuality and stuff.
And not to say that there's anything wrong with that. It's not where I'm going with this. Just
some guys get clowned for stuff like that in here and get belittled and ridiculed when really
it's just that desire for physical touch from anything that a human need, and it's manifesting
itself in this way where guys are playing grab ass, slapping each other on the ass, playing
around and stuff, it's because of that deprivation of heavily coveted human touch.
Nigel: Can I ask you the last time you had a hug that you were expecting was going to give
you all that stuff you wanted, but it was disappointing?
Robert: Hmm. That's a great question. I'm not sure. Yeah. The last few hugs I've had,
they're so few and far [chuckles] between. They've all been really fulfilling. So, I couldn't
think of the last one that let me down.
Nigel: Okay. So, tell us about the last great hug you had.
Robert: The last great one was I hadn't seen my mom in about six years. And she came to
the family event this last summer. We have a big barbecue on the yard. Family event. It's a
really good time. Hugging my mom for the first time after all those years. She's gotten so
much smaller. Yeah, that was good.
Nigel: Did you say anything to her about getting smaller, or did you just keep that to
yourself?
Robert: Yeah, I kept it to myself. Yeah.Nigel: Yeah. At a certain age, when you get a hug from your parents, you feel protection
from them and they're bigger than you. And then, when you're older and you hug them and
you want that feeling and you realize they can't give it to you anymore. And I imagine in
prison, people come to this realization even when they're adults, “My parents can't fix this.”
Robert: There's a lot of things they can't save us from anymore.
Nigel: If you could hug anyone right now, who would it be?
Robert: My little brother. My little brother. He's in so much deeper and darker of a prison
than I'm in right now. I don't even know where it came from. It's come on so strong in the last
three or four years. He's struggling really, really bad with mental health. They always say the
same thing. They're like, “Yeah, when you're around, it's different,” this and that. “But now,
he's just like he's stuck in this room and he's yelling at his walls, and wandering around the
yard with a gun in his hand, yelling into the street and stuff.”
And it's like, you can only watch so much of this shit on TV before you, like, “I can't do it
anymore. I hear about these people going crazy and hurting their loved ones and killing their
families and stuff.” And it's like, “When am I going to get that phone call? When am I going to
get that text message?” I've always been my brother's keeper. That's my little brother and
I'm the oldest of three. Yeah, it would be my little brother.
Gabriela: And here is a little different. Some people don't like you to touch them. So, you
respect people boundaries and you know the people that hug and the people that don't. So,
it's more of, “Can I give you a hug?”
Earlonne: Now, we're back at the Central California Women's Facility.
Nigel: This is Gabriela. She's been in prison for 22 years.
Gabriela: Now that we have new generation coming, they have different types of hugs. So,
we, the old school people, have to ask the new school was trending, because we've been
here decades and they just get here. And they be looking at you like, “You're weird.” But
then I'm like, “School me. Tell me what's happening out there.”
Nigel: So, what was the last good hug that you got?
Gabriela: The last good hug that I got was in a courtroom after I was being sentenced to 25
to life. The judge allowed the bailiff to allow me hug my six-month-old nephew. His name is
Zooz. She told the bailiff, “Let her hug him. She is dying in prison.”
Earlonne: Ooh, that's deep.
Nigel: Man, the judge literally said, “Let her have one last hug, because she's going to die in
prison”? Can you imagine hearing that?
Gabriela: I hugged him. And his little legs started moving fast. He was touching my face,
and I was just in awe, you know? The feeling of gratitude and joy was, you know, there's not
even no words. We had that connection. I knew then that he loved me and I loved him, too.
And that was the last hug I gave somebody before I came to prison.
Nigel: 18 years after that final hug in the courtroom, Gabriela got to see her nephew again
when he came to visit her in prison. And he was all grown up.Gabriela: I was like, “Oh my God, there he is.” He gently just waited for me. He is first time
coming to prison to visit somebody he doesn't know how it is. So, he doesn't want to break
no rules. So, he was just sitting there. I approached him, and he got up, and he hugged me,
and we hugged. I was crying, he was crying. It was a very beautiful moment, because I had
been waiting for all those years to be able to see him.
Earlonne: Is he tall? Did you have to reach up him?
Gabriela: He's tall. Definitely taller than me. He had a button up shirt. His pants were ironed.
His shoes were super clean. And I felt special because, who buys an outfit to come to
prison? Well, he did because he felt it was a special day for him. He might never know it, but
to me, it was the best day of my life.
Earlonne: We'll be back with some more stories.
Nigel: [laughs] What? You can't even say it? I'm going to do my best to make sure there's
some boohoos coming out of those eyes before this episode is done, my friend.
Earlonne: We'll be right back.
Jason: How do you feel about hugs?
Tam: Hugs? Oh yeah, I can get a hug. Give me a hug.
Tam and Jason: [laughs]
Jason: So, if you could hug anybody, who would you hug?
Jason: Myself.
Nigel: Okay. We are back on the yard at Ng.
Earlonne: I didn’t know you meant that i was going to cry because of the production.
Nigel: [laughs] Earlonne, I hear you.
Earlonne: Oh my God, those levels, Nigel, they are-- He's too close to the mic, and he's too
loud.
Nigel: [laughs] It hurts.
Tam: Can you state your name?
Ralph: Ralph Aragin.
Tam: How long you been in prison now, Ralph?
Ralph: 20 years.
Tam: If you could give a hug to anybody right now--
Ralph: I give a hug to you.
Tam: You'd give it to me?Ralph: I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you.
Earlonne: Okay, we just heard an Asian guy, a black guy, and a Mexican guy talking about
hugging.
Nigel: California model in action, right? [laughs]
Earlonne: Exactly. Like, for real, though, this type of shit did not happen in prison back in
the 1990s or the 1980s.
Ralph: You guys love me, man.
Tam: Yeah.
Ralph: You know, and I love you back.
Tam: All right, give me a hug, man. Give me a hug. Come on, bro.
Sammie: Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. I need my hug, too. Come on, man.
Tam: You know that I'm not really, overly affectionate. I'm not into hugging people.
Nigel: This next story comes from Tam, and he's talking Tony.
Tam: It was a few months back, and we know Vo that came off death row. He became a dog
handler. He has this little dog called Maybe. She's like a golden Labrador. She was like
three, four months. She was skinny, but nice a little medium size, right? Maybe like, what,
two feet long. Three feet long. She has a short snout, big, brown eyes, and she looks at you
like she's the happiest dog in the world, right?
I really wanted just to hug her, so I squatted down and I asked Vo-- I asked his permission,
“Can I hug this dog?” And she ran straight into me, and then bulldozed into me. So, I'm
squatted down, and her face is in between my legs, and she nuzzles her little snout into my
hands. And then, she starts pressing to me really hard. And I couldn't even help it, but my
eyes started tearing up.
Vo looked at me, he goes, “Hey, are you crying?” And I go, “Yes, I think I am,” because I
just-- I didn't realize how much I wanted to hug this dog. So, as I'm hugging her, she keeps
nuzzling into me, and I'm tipping over, right? She just keeps pushing her face against my
hands. Then, she hooks this strap that they got around her face. I think it's called a lead--
Nigel: This is clear, right? I mean, the dog is wearing a strap over her nose.
Earlonne: Right. It's like a little muzzle.
Nigel: Yeah. Yeah, almost.
Tam: And it unhooks. As soon as it unhooks, she turns around, runs off, and I go, “What the
fuck was that,
” right? And then, Vo goes, “Oh, she was just trying to use your hands to take
the lead off her face.” And I couldn't even help it. The first thing I said was, “You fucking
bitch”
.
[laughter]I was so hurt, right? I thought, “Oh, man, she loves me,” and then she just turned out to be a
traitor. I just wanted to have a connection, I guess, with another living being that wasn't
judging me, didn't hate me, didn't have nothing against me. Apparently, she just wanted to
use my hands, though, to take the lead line off her face. But for 20 seconds, I felt, like, so
close to something, and I just started crying.
Sammie: What's your name?
Carlos: Carlos.
Sammie: How long you been in prison?
Carlos: Four years.
Sammie: If you could hug anyone, who would it be?
Carlos: My mom .I haven't had a touching hug in a long time, so I don't know. It's hard for
me to talk about right now.
Male Speaker: When I think about hugs, I think about my kids.
Male Speaker: When was the last time you hugged your kids?
Male Speaker: My son, he's in the Navy, so he's always deployed, so that's hard.
Male Speaker: Yes.
Male Speaker: And then, my other son, he's locked up with me. They put us together when
we was in DVI.
Male Speaker: Okay.
Male Speaker: And then, one night, they came and got him. They popped the door open. I
gave him a hug, and I just couldn't let him go. The cop was like, “He's got to go,
” and I was
just like, “I know he's my son though,” I knew that might be my last time seeing him.
Male Speaker: Yes.
Male Speaker: So, yeah, I hugged him. I kept on hugging him, even though the cops kept
telling me, “Let him go, let him go.” And I was like, “I just ignored them.”
Latoya: I went to an elementary school in Los Angeles called Russell Elementary School.
Wasn't too far from where we lived. Probably like a 10-minute walk.
Earlonne: This is Latoya. She's also incarcerated at the Central California Women's Facility.
Nigel: The story she's telling takes place when Latoya was nine years old. I remember this
from when I was in elementary school, that every year, there would be picture day. And a
couple weeks before that, every family was given this order form to fill out.
Latoya: Within that week of picture day, we had a week to turn in our money. You will put it
in an envelope, and you would take it back to school after your parents fill it out, pick which
picture they want sizes, and then the teachers will put it in the drawer.One day, I just was on my way out from school. There was a lot of empty classrooms. And
so, I started with my classroom, and checked the drawer, and there was packets there. And
so, I took the packets. I stuffed them all in my backpack. Yeah, and walked fast home.
Nigel: When you were walking home with it, how did you feel with that in your pocket?
Latoya: I was anxious. I just couldn't even wait to get back home.
Nigel: Were you excited to tell your mom?
Latoya: I was so excited. I mean, I wanted new shoes, clothes. My mom always struggled.
And so, just to know that she was going to be excited that I had received some money, I
thought it was going to bring her a lot of joy and less stress.
Nigel: Do you remember how much money it was?
Latoya: It was like $180. It was a lot of money. I mean, 100 bucks for a nine-year-old, I
mean, that's like, “I'm rich.” Took all the money out of the packets and just gave it to my
mom. That was the only time I can remember my mom really embracing me.
I hadn't received that type of attention or affection from my mom. So, it felt good. I was
happy, I felt loved, I felt accepted by my mom. I had her attention and I received that hug. It
was a really good feeling. And I continued to do that, because that is something that was
going to please my mom, so let me do more of that. Yeah.
That led me to jumping fences and looking in people's backyards with me and my brothers.
When we knew neighbors weren't home, we'll go in their home looking for food. When we
did something that was bad, we're acknowledged. And that led us to continue. Then, we
came together and committed this crime and led us to prison.
Nigel: Do you remember the next hug in your life?
Latoya: Yeah. I have two daughters, and they were the last people I hugged. Me and my
brothers, we committed a robbery. That morning, I had dropped my daughters off at school
and gave them a hug and watched them run into the school. They were four and six years
old.
Earlonne: You never went back to pick them up?
Latoya: Nope. Because later on that morning, me and my brothers committed our crime,
and from there, we're arrested.
Nigel: What was the last thing they said to you?
Latoya: They reminded me that we're going to go have ice cream after, and I said yes, for
sure. And then, the next time I seen them, they were already 18. They came here, actually,
to come visit.
Nigel: Did you hug then?
Latoya: Oh yeah, we hugged, we cried, we embraced. It was the most beautiful thing,
biggest blessing ever in my life. We hugged for a good five minutes, and just cried, and I
cried. They're 21 and 23, and they are still those little girls.
Nigel: Any little boohoos over there?Earlonne: No, I was stuck with the kids. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know they
wanted the ice cream, but they got delivered a whole different. You know what I'm saying?
Like, “Damn, that's deep.”
Nigel: Yeah. See--
Earlonne: Almost. Not, not really. Almost. That resonates.
Nigel: Yeah. They aren't just corny stories, Earlonne. And we've got one more really
beautiful hug story coming up.
Earlonne: Yeah. This one's from San Quentin. Sammie and his friend Jorge.
Jorge: My name is Jorge Lopez.
Sammie: Jorge, I've been thinking your name was George all this time.
Jorge: It is George, ever since Trump came into office, bro, I was born here.
Sammie: Okay. [crosstalk]
Jorge: You know what I'm saying?
Sammie: With Jorge, he don't care about none of that.
Jorge: Exactly. So, I'm going by George for now.
Sammie: Okay. I see where we going with this.
Jorge: By the age of 14, I had got deeply into my crystal meth addiction. My mom had
kicked me out, because she couldn't put up with a lot of the stuff that I was doing. I was
living on the streets. I had no place to really stay, so I started to steal cars so I could try to
provide for myself. Not only to feed my addiction, but to try to get some of that money and
get a motel.
I found my way down on Auburn Boulevard in Sacramento, and I befriended a few hookers. I
literally just asked them, like, “Hey, man, can y'all help me out to rent a motel daily?” Then
little by little, man, we started being friends. We would go down the street to the ampm, buy
scratchers, the slushies and all this, right? They just knew I was still young. Bro, they did
what they did. I did mine. Little by little, man, we started having this good relationship to
where we would bond and we would just talk.
One day, I was sitting at the edge of the bed-- I think they just knew I was going through it. I
don't know if I was just on a comedown. The drugs wasn't working. I was unable to manage
my emotions. I remember I was using crystal meth at that time, but it wasn't doing anything
to my body, because after a while, just nothing works.
I was sitting at the edge of that bed, just contemplating, what my life was looking like, what it
has came to, what is it that I wanted to do with myself. Knowing I wanted to stop using, but I
didn't know how. Knowing I wanted help, but I didn't know how to ask. For whatever reason,
Miriam hugged me. She gave me a hug, bro. She came over, bro, and gave me that hug.
She leaned in for a hug, bro, and it was on my right side. I remember she put her chest on
my shoulder and just wrapped me up. And I didn't react. I didn't react for a moment.At first, it was awkward, extremely awkward, because I don't really remember being hugged
as a kid. At this moment in time, bro, it just felt right. I felt comfort. In that very moment, bro, I
felt safe. I remember I hugged her back and we hugged for a while. I don't know if I
reminded her of maybe a kid, maybe a little brother or whatever it was, man, but at that
moment in time, bro, she reminded me of a mom and somebody that's actually looking out
for me.
Sammie: If you can go back and tell her right now how impactful that was to you at that
moment, what would you tell her?
Jorge: First off, I'd like to say thank you, because all these years later, I still remember that
hug, bro. [Sammie laughs] I still remember that hug. I just want her to know that I appreciate
her. I pray that she's made it out, and I want her to know that I still remember that hug, man.
No matter what, I felt love that day, and she made that happen.
Nigel: Okay. Earlonne?
Earlonne: Mm-hmm.
Nigel: Really? Was this a corny episode. Come on, now.
Earlonne: It was very corny, Nigel.
Nigel: You know, [Earlonne chuckles] I know what you're doing right now. You're deflecting.
Earlonne: Oh. [laughs]
Nigel: Because that one, how could that not go to your heart?
Earlonne: I get the gist of it. It was okay story.
Nigel: Okay, lift your hat up a little bit, so I can see your eyes, because you're hiding under
your hat.
Earlonne: They're not glistening. I can tell you, they're not glistening, Nigel. So, you love this
episode is what you're saying.
Nigel: I think it's a potentially super corny topic that I would roll my eyes at, but instead I'm
just going, yeah, my hands over my heart.
Earlonne: Well, maybe it's just me. Maybe my heart is cold.
Nigel: No. I know you too well to say that.
Earlonne: Okay. I think Latoya is the one that really, really, really, really resonated with me.
So, I see that a lot, so I can relate.
Nigel: All right. All right. Well, let's hug it out after this.
Earlonne: All right. That's cool.
Nigel: Ear Hustle is produced by me, Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce
Wallace, and Cat Schuknecht.
Earlonne: Shabnam Sigman is the managing producer.Nigel: The producing team inside San Quentin includes Derrell Sadiq Davis, and Tam
Nguyen. The inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya.
Earlonne: Thanks also Warden Andes at San Quentin, Acting Warden Parker, Associate
Warden Lewis and PIO Lt. Avina at the California Institution for Women, and Warden De La
Cruz and PIO Lieutenant Vogel at the Central California Women's Facility for their support of
the show. And as you know, every episode of Ear Hustle has to be approved by a public
information officer. This week, it's this woman here.
Lt. Guim'Mara Berry: I listened to the episode, and I've learned that it's the little things that
we take for granted. I hug my kids all the time, hug my grandson all the time, and so I look
forward to other episodes where people can be vulnerable. My name is Lt. Guim'Mara Berry.
I serve as the public information officer at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, and I approve
this episode.
Nigel: This episode was sound designed by Bruce Wallace, Earlonne Woods, and Derrell
Sadiq Davis. Fernando Arruda and Harry Culhane are our engineers.
Earlonne: Music for this episode comes Antwan Williams, David Jassy, Derrell Sadiq Davis,
Bruce Wallace and me.
Nigel: For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on Ear Hustle's
website, earhustlesq.com.
Earlonne: Ear Hustle receives support from. The Just Trust, building a smaller, more
humane engine of justice and safety across the country.
Nigel: Ear Hustle will always be free. But if you want more Ear Hustle without ads, sign up
for Ear Hustle Plus. You'll get fun bonus content, and you'll be supporting our team.
Earlonne: Sign up at earhustlesq.com/plus, or directly in Apple Podcasts.
Nigel: Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent,
creator owned, listener supported podcasts.
Earlonne: Discover audio with vision at radiotopia.fm.
Nigel: I'm Nigel Poor.
Earlonne: I'm Earlonne Woods.
Nigel and Earlonne: Thanks for listening.
Tam: You know what? You look like a pretty big guy, right?
Male Speaker: Can you hug? [crosstalk] say that.
Male Speaker: He can't even reach his arms around his shoulders. He's so buff that you
can't even touch your back with your fingertips. It go just to your armpits.
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